Thoughts on reopening schools this fall.

"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher) 07/27/2020 at 12:24 • Filed to: I have no idea what to tag this as.

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This is actually the good side.

Excuse me a few minutes, I just need to get my thoughts out about reopening schools this fall. If you’re not interested, turn back now.

My district is planning to reopen its schools in a few weeks. The middle school and high schools (I teach middle school) will be opening on a hybrid schedule, to keep class sizes down. The short thumbnail sketch of the plan is group A goes to school Monday/Tuesday, group B goes Thursday/Friday, on Wednesday kids who need more help may come to school as well. The rest of the time, students will be learning remotely.

Logistically, this will work OK for my classes. I’m planning to record all my demonstrations ahead of time, for students to view and learn at home. That way the two days a week I see them in person, we can use all of that time to get actual work done. It will still be a net loss of work time, but we’ll make it work. My real concern, is how in the hell are kids supposed to safely and social distancingly (I think this is a word now) eat lunch in school? I can’t square that circle in my head- movies .

What I think we should do instead, is exactly what the school district that my daughters attend will be doing. Group A goes to school in the morning five days a week, then does remote in the afternoon. Group B does remote in the morning, and comes to school in person in the afternoon five days a week. Nobody eats in the building. Kids only have to wear a mask two and a half hours a day, instead of six or seven, which is a much easier task for them.

Even worse though, is that my district is planning to run its elementary schools full time, normal schedule. I’m sure classes will be a little smaller, because some kids will be kept home by there parents (the district is offering a remote learning option for all levels), but there is no way on earth to socially distance a group of 20 little kids in a classroom all day. And these little ones will have to keep their masks on ALL day. Oh, and eat lunch there.

But it’s OK, the parents are going to “self-certify” that their kids are not sick before each day.

How is that supposed to work? The district’s plan includes the term “when possible” an alarming number of times. If you made it a drinking game, you’d die of alcohol poisoning. You can read “When possible,” as “Not gonna happen,” in my personal opinion. I feel particularly bad for the nurses. Having read the protocol they’re supposed to go through, I’m not sure how one person can do that without cloning themselves at least two or three times.

My union is going bonkers over this. The overwhelming majority of the members want to start the year in full remote, and they are in a total dither over it. Communication between union leadership and the board … that’s not gone well. The union presented a letter to the school board with eight pages of specific concerns about the school opening plan. The board responded six days later, with a letter from the board president accusing the membership of half-assing it during emergency remote learning in the spring and telling us we should just be happy that we have jobs.

I was fairly stunned by how disrespectful that letter was . I previously thought very highly of our board’s president. Not anymore

I haven’t been super happy with the direction that the union has gone either . By that I mean they’re really only pushing for remote learning. Given the district’s determination to start in person, we should focus on ways we could make a hybrid schedule safer, and implement a hybrid schedule at the elementary level. I get that I am in the minority of the membership though.

I have now given up hope that anything will be changed or improved before the start of the year in a few short weeks, because the board has chosen to dig in, and now the union is simply in fight mode.  I’ve seen how this goes before, and it never goes well.

I’ve never had more dread before the start of a school year. Not because of the children, but because of the adults. We’re starting the year with an entire week of institute days. I’m going to have to endure five entire days of BS training surrounded by dozens of incredibly pissed off and freaked out teachers that are going to be constantly bitching. I’m just going to shut up and drink my coffee and try and think happy thoughts.

It’s always the adults that cause problems.

We’ll probably get shut down in two weeks anyways, so I better enjoy the four days I get to see the kids in person. I am excited to teach in person again, truly I am. All the other BS around it though, oh boy is that gonna suck.

I’ll be curious to see how many people quit or take leaves of absence. That is not an option for me. I have a family to feed on my income alone, so I have no choice but to take it all on. I’ve seen my dad do a lot of hairy shit to feed his family while working construction, so I guess it’s my turn now to suck it up and get to work. At least I’m not on top of roof.

Told ya.

Nibby > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:29

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Friend sent me this from a few weeks ago.

For those of you navigating the “to school” or “to homeschool” decision, this has been one of THE most comprehensive articles written that I have seen.

I am pasting it from my friend’s feed with her permission. She is a teacher and she shared this. Also, FCPS stands for Fairfax County Public Schools (I had to Google to clarify that).

—-

To our fellow FCPS families, this is it gang, 5 days until the 2 days in school vs. 100% virtual decision. Let’s talk it out, in my traditional mammoth TL/DR form.

Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise. You’ll get no presumption of expertise here. This is how I am looking at and considering this issue and the positions people have taken in my feed and in the hundred or so FCPS discussion groups that have popped up. The lead comments in quotes are taken directly from my feed and those boards. Sometimes I try to rationalize them. Sometimes I’m just punching back at the void.

Full disclosure, we initially chose the 2 days option and are now having serious reservations. As I consider the positions and arguments I see in my feed, these are where my mind goes. Of note, when I started working on this piece at 12:19 PM today the COVID death tally in the United States stood at 133,420.

“My kids want to go back to school.”

I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.

“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”

This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?

“My kid is going to be left behind.”

Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.

“Classrooms are safe.”

At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.

I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”

100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:

“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”
“Oh hell no.”
“No absolutely not.”
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”
“Something of that size would be virtual.”

We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?

“Children only die .0016 of the time.”

First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.

If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.

FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.

Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?

Same argument, applied to the 12,487 teachers in FCPS (per Wikipedia), using the ‘children’s multiplier’ of .0016 (all of us understanding the adult mortality rate is higher). That’s 20 teachers. That’s the number you’re talking about. It’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and diminish and dismiss the risk you’re advocating other people assume. Take a breath and think about that.

If you want to advocate for 2 days a week, look, I’m looking for someone to convince me. But please, for the love of God, drop things like this from your argument. Because the people I know who’ve said things like this, I know they’re better people than this. They’re good people under incredible stress who let things slip out as their frustration boils over. So, please do the right thing and move on from this, because one potential outcome is that one day, you’re going to have to stand in front of St. Peter and answer for this, and that’s not going to be conversation you enjoy.

“Hardly any kids get COVID.”

(Deep sigh) Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing. But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece.

One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least EXPOSURE to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people. Put another way, you cannot cite the effect without acknowledging the cause.

“The flu kills more people every year.”

(Deep sigh). First of all, no, it doesn’t. Per the CDC, United States flu deaths average 20,000 annually. COVID, when I start writing here today, has killed 133,420 in six months.

And when you mention the flu, do you mean the disease that, if you’re suspected of having it, everyone, literally everyone in the country tells you stay the f- away from other people? You mean the one where parents are pretty sure their kids have it but send them to school anyway because they have a meeting that day, the one that every year causes massive f-ing outbreaks in schools because schools are petri dishes and it causes kids to miss weeks of school and leaves them out of sports and band for a month? That one? Because you’re right - the flu kills people every year. It does, but you’re ignoring the why. It’s because there are people who are a—holes who don’t care about infecting other people. In that regard it’s a perfect comparison to COVID.

“Almost everyone recovers.”

You’re confusing “release from the hospital” and “no longer infected” with “recovered.” I’m fortunate to only know two people who have had COVID. One my age and one my dad’s age. The one my age described it as “absolute hell” and although no longer infected cannot breathe right. The one my dad’s age was in the hospital for 13 weeks, had to have a trach ring put in because she could no longer be on a ventilator, and upon finally getting home and being faced with incalculable time in rehab told my mother, “I wish I had died.”

While I’m making every effort to reach objectivity, on this particular point, you don’t know what the f- you’re talking about.

“If people get sick, they get sick.”

First, you mistyped. What you intended to say was “If OTHER people get sick, they get sick.” And shame on you.

“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”

You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, “I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,” and I’ve got news for you: that ship has sailed. It’s too late. There are two kinds of people, and only two: those that admit they’re afraid, and those that are lying to themselves about it.

As to the fear argument, fear is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.

“FCPS leadership sucks.”

I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids. I understand your arguments, that we need the 2 days option for parents who can’t work from home, kids who don’t have internet or computer access, kids who needs meals from the school system, kids who need extra support to learn, and most tragically for kids who are at greater risk of abuse by being home. All very serious, all very real issues, all heartbreaking. No argument.

But you must first lead by example. Because you’re failing when it comes to optics. All your meetings are online. What our children see is all of you on a Zoom telling them it’s OK for them to be exactly where you aren’t. I understand you’re not PR people, but you really should think about hiring some.

“I talked it over with my kids.”
Let’s put aside for a moment the concept of adults effectively deferring this decision to children, the same children who will continue to stuff things into a full trash can rather than change it out. Yes, those hygienic children.

Listen, my 15 year old daughter wants a sport car, which she’s not getting next year because it would be dangerous to her and to others. Those kinds of decisions are our job. We step in and decide as parents, we don’t let them expose themselves to risks because their still developing and screen addicted brains narrow their understanding of cause and effect.

We as parents and adults serve to make difficult decisions. Sometimes those are in the form of lessons, where we try to steer kids towards the right answer and are willing to let them make a mistake in the hopes of teaching better decision making the next time around. This is not one of those moments. The stakes are too high for that. This is a “the adults are talking” moment. Kids are not mature enough for this moment. That is not an attack on your child. It is a broad statement about all children. It is true of your children and it was true when we were children. We need to be doing that thinking here, and “Johnny wants to see Bobby at school” cannot be the prevailing element in the equation.

“The teachers need to do their job.”
How is it that the same society which abruptly shifted to virtual students only three months ago, and offered glowing endorsements of teachers stating, “we finally understand how difficult your job is,” has now shifted to “screw you, do your job.” There are myriad problems with that position but for the purposes of this piece let’s simply go with, “You’re not looking for a teacher, you’re looking for the babysitter you feel your property tax payment entitles you to.”

“Teachers have a greater chance to being killed by a car than they do of dying from COVID.”

(Eye roll) Per the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the U.S. see approximately 36,000 auto fatalities a year. Again, there have been 133,420 COVID deaths in the United States through 12:09 July 10, 2020. So no, they do not have a great chance of being killed in a car accident.

And, if you want to take the actual environment into consideration, the odds of a teacher being killed in a car accident in their classroom, you know, the environment we’re actually talking about, that’s right around 0%.

“If the grocery store workers can be onsite what are the teachers afraid of?”

(Deep breath) A grocery store worker, who absolutely risks exposure, has either six feet of space or a plexiglass shield between them and individual adult customers who can grasp their own mortality whose transactions can be completed in moments, in a 40,000 SF space.

A teacher is with 11 ‘customers’ who have not an inkling what mortality is, for 45 minutes, in a 675 SF space, six times a day.

Just stop.

“Teachers are choosing remote because they don’t want to work.”

(Deep breaths) Many teachers are opting to be remote. That is not a vacation. They’re requesting to do their job at a safer site. Just like many, many people who work in buildings with recycled air have done. And likely the building you’re not going into has a newer and better serviced air system than our schools.

Of greater interest to me is the number of teachers choosing the 100% virtual option for their children. The people who spend the most time in the buildings are the same ones electing not to send their children into those buildings. That’s something I pay attention to.

“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”

I truly, deeply respect that honesty. Truth be told, both arguments have crossed my mind. Pre COVID, I routinely worked from home 1 – 2 days a week. The solace was nice. When I was in the office, I had an actual office, a room with a door I could close, where I could focus. During the quarantine that hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been frustrated, I’ve been short, I’ve gone to just take a drive and get the hell away for a moment and been disgusted when one of the kids sees me and asks me to come for a ride, robbing me of those minutes of silence. You want to hear silence. I get it. I really, really do.

Here’s another version of that, admittedly extreme. What if one of our kids becomes one of the 302? What’s that silence going to sound like? What if you have one of those matted frames where you add the kid’s school picture every year? What if you don’t get to finish the pictures?

“What does your gut tell you to do?”

Shawn and I have talked ad infinitum about all of these and other points. Two days ago, at mid-discussion I said, “Stop, right now, gut answer, what is it,” and we both said, “virtual.”

A lot of the arguments I hear people making for the 2 days sound like we’re trying to talk ourselves into ignoring our instincts, they are almost exclusively, “We’re doing 2 days, but…”. There’s a fantastic book by Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, which I’ll minimize for you thusly: your gut instinct is a hardwired part of your brain and you should listen to it. In the introduction he talks about elevators, and how, of all living things, humans are the only ones that would voluntarily get into a soundproof steel box with a potential predator just so they could skip a flight of stairs.

I keep thinking that the 2 days option is the soundproof steel box. I welcome, damn, beg, anyone to convince me otherwise.

At the time I started writing at 12:09 PM, 133,420 Americans had died from COVID. Upon completing this draft at 7:04 PM, that number rose to 133,940.

520 Americans died of COVID while I was working on this. In seven hours.

The length of a school day.

PartyPooper2012 > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:34

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Hey, B uick loving friend. Hope you are well.

This is a quite the write up. I read a bit of it.

On a somewhat related note, I went to a big box hardware store this weekend, for small hardware. While checking out - it’s all semi self checkout now, a nice employee came by to wipe down the pin pad and scan gun.... with a towel... same towel she’s been using all day...because lazy.

Well, where I am going with this is that people are super duper lazy. They will not clean in between groups as properly as they should. At least that is my opinion . At that rate, might as well have everyone pull masks off and lick all the door knobs and each other’s fingers.

Perhaps I missed a good portion of where there is a solution to this problem, but I am at work and don’t have time to read the entire thing. I will later tho... and might edit my comment

Wheelerguy > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:34

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Huh. Your problems s eem tame in comparison to ours. Which isn’t to say they’re not significantly shite, just that at least you still have some level heads to run the show. H ere in the Philippines, there’s just none. They’re pushing for classes to start o n the 24th, and forcing online classes and this “blended learning” bullamalarkey without ever preparing the infrastructure or considering students and teachers who can’t afford tech.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Nibby 07/27/2020 at 12:39

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Wow, t hat’s a reasoned response.

HammerheadFistpunch > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:40

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Im freaking out a little. Our options are:

1. school as normal (full week, all students) but with “self-certifying”, assigned lunch room seats, assigned recess groups and a few other things.

2. Online only with a district teacher (not the kids regular teacher, but a single district teacher that would likely cover the entire grade. HUGE classes)

3. Deal with it on your own.

These options all suck and I’ m not happy about it. A hybrid approach would be great at this point. I haven’t heard from many teachers on this, it’ s good to hear. Sorry you have to deal with the politics directly, I feel for you.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:41

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My thoughts are that it should be okay as long as 100% of all staff and students get tested within a week before school starts AND while at school, everyone has to wear masks.

And for the “ma rights” anti-mask and anti-testing idiots... well they can freely not wear masks or not get tested ... they will just be barred from entering the school.

Ash78, voting early and often > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:43

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We pushed opening back to late August (originally early August).

Lunch for elementary will look like this:

1. Bring your lunch, you just eat in class.

2. School lunch, you walk down to the cafeteria and bring it back.

Our district has been big about keeping kids as isolated as possible — not from everyone, but from outside “groups” (ie, other classes). The idea there is to make contact tracing and quarantining more feasible if the issue arises.

We’re still waiting to see about the staggered schedule (Mon/Wed and Tue/Thu), but for now it all depends on if the teachers can spread the kids out enough. K-2nd will have masks “recommended” whenever you’re not at your desk; 3-5 will have them required.

Yeah, we just spent like $170 on masks for the family so we can keep a clean rotation and have something that doesn’t get mixed up with other kids . Until now, I’ve just been re-using the same 3 disposable patient masks, since I didn’t need them for more than 30 minutes at a time.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:44

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We are going to have to tackle this somewhat soon too. School is supposed to start in about 4 weeks. These are children. They are going to get COVID at school and bring it home, 100% guarantee it. Fucking hell, I don’t know what to do. My kids absolutely sucked at home schooling. I want a return to normalcy, I highly doubt this is going to happen for at least another year... See Ni bby response.

HoustonRunner > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 12:48

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I think there are a lot of educators like you (or at least I hope there are). I’m in Houston, and they chose to go virtual only for the first 6 weeks. I’ve got 4 kids (twin 4th graders, 6th and 8th grade) and I’m definitely concerned about a lot of things.

Just to set context, all of my kids go to public school. I’m also in a situation where my wife and I can work from home still so we don’t have to worry about care for our kids so we can work, so we are very fortunate.

That said, I wish our district was going to something similar to what your kids will do - the morning / afternoon swap with no lunch at school for anyone. I’m mostly concerned with my 8th grader. She is an introvert and hard to keep motivated even in person, and ending the year virtual was hard for my wife and I. She definitely is boosted by the socialization in person, and I’m at a loss how to deal with that as she begins 8th grade.

We are all figuring out what and how to do “life” safely now. But like anyone else with teenage girls, I can’t help but think “really? now?”.

shop-teacher > HammerheadFistpunch 07/27/2020 at 12:52

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Those are tough choices. I imagine it depends greatly on your kids . Both their ability to work at home, and their health situation.  No good answers though.

shop-teacher > Nibby 07/27/2020 at 12:53

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Yeah, good points, but that doesn’t really help me deal with this.  We’re going to school, and I have to be there.  I’d like to be able to change things for the better at least.

shop-teacher > HoustonRunner 07/27/2020 at 12:55

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My daughters are going into kindergarten and second grade. They both love school. The older one HATED E-learning, and my wife was very frustrated. Also, f rankly, how much could you possibly teach a kindergartner remotely?

shop-teacher > Ash78, voting early and often 07/27/2020 at 12:58

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Kids eating school lunch will have it brought to them in our district. The idea that you can keep a full size class adequately separated in your average classroom is laughable. My CAD lab only has a capacity of 24 students, and to get to that numb er, they’re stuffed in like sardin es.

shop-teacher > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/27/2020 at 12:59

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There will be no testing.  We’re not even checking temperatures at the door.

shop-teacher > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/27/2020 at 13:00

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Home schooling is very tough for a lot of kids, and it places the parents in a tough position as well.  Most of them are not teachers.  My wife was very frustrated trying to help our first grader through it in the spring.

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 07/27/2020 at 13:02

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Yeah.  And how do I disinfect my keyboards in the 30 seconds my room is empty between classes?  The tools are a little easier at least.

PartyPooper2012 > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:06

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yep. I don’t know if the extra day between groups might be useful in cleaning, but then again. one kid infected can get the whole school real quick. No matter what and how you clean.

I had to work this weekend... and it was somewhat important project to business continuation.

I had this thought in the back of my head - what if I got the rona.. this would be the last project I do for the firm. This might be my last hoorah. My coworkers will curse my name if I muck it up.

sigh. what a world we’re living in

Ash78, voting early and often > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:07

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I agree. I feel like the attitude now is more like “Well, at least if something happens, odds are it will be one classroom, not multiple.”

They’ve also canceled all traveling between rooms (for elementary, that’s art, STEM lab, library, music, etc; for MS/HS, that’s much tougher).

About 25% of the elementary parents have opted for full-time remote learning for the first 9 weeks. MS/HS are even higher, since they already had better infrastructure for that. Some high school kids here do more than half of their last 2 years from home...sounds crazy to me, but I guess it’s really like college prep.

shop-teacher > Ash78, voting early and often 07/27/2020 at 13:16

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I don’t know what our at home numbers will be yet.

There will be plenty of traveling between rooms at the MS and HS level.  

Nibby > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:18

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fire exists

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 07/27/2020 at 13:18

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That reminds me, part of the plan was to, and I’m paraphrasing here, ‘High traffic areas like doorknobs will be frequently sanitized - at least once a day’

ONCE A DAY!

Nibby > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/27/2020 at 13:18

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yea it’s really well thought and thorough

unlike most of the things our gov’t mandates these days

shop-teacher > Nibby 07/27/2020 at 13:19

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As does prison.

Nothing > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:22

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I don’t have the answer, I wish I did. Yes, I would love normalcy and for my son to be back at school. I also know that the ad hoc distance learning that occurred to close out last year was horrible and useless. I also know that cleaning/touch points will be impossible to keep up with at a school. So to go back into the classroom, as a parent, you have to be open and accepting  to the fact that your child may very well come home with the virus.

I like the half day idea you mentioned. It really sounds like here, most are going to go with a full day Monday/Tuesday students A-L , Wednesday is a “cleaning” day, and Thurs/Friday students N-Z.

TheRealBicycleBuck > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:25

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Dang. I feel for your situation. We have several friends who are teachers and are facing the same dilemmas . Our son’s school decided to go back full time until the general outcry from the parents. Now they are offering a distance-learning option. We have the luxury of taking advantage of that option.

Good luck to you, my friend. Stay healthy.

PartyPooper2012 > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:27

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I sure hope they don’t spend all of the school’s budget on stupid Lysol . Put some alcohol in a spray bottle. Add water. Spray and wipe. Only doing this to make people feed better. It may or may not have any benefit. No one knows a damn thing. Stay 6 feet away from each other. Wear a mask... and gloves and face shield. Matter of fact, hide under your bed... 27 miles apart.

No matter what anyone does, someone else will come along and tell us how what first person is doing will not work.

lysol - oh well, it only kill 99.99%. There is still that .01% guy

windex - oh well, that’s not strong enough to kill rona

guided tomahawk missile - frowned upon by dept of edu

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:30

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That’s... absurd. It takes less than three seconds to scan a person.

Sovande > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:32

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My son’s school is all virtual for at least the first quarter. His mom is a counselor at the local high school and she doesn’t think it will open at all and everything will be virtual. I don’t want my kid at school. I don’t want to deal with the risk.

After the first quarter they are going to transition to a hybrid model - half go Monday and Tuesday and half go Thursday and Friday and the other days are at home learning. They will sanitize on Wednesdays. That will never happen. Schools will open in other areas and numbers will increase and they will shut it all down again.

People are far too ignorant to stop this thing. Just this weekend there was a big party on the lawn at my condo. The bar across the street had a band in the parking lot. It’s like people can’t help but hover around others and get drunk. I guess they don’t like the older people in their lives.

AkursedX > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:34

1

I didn’t see it mentioned, but does your school have a plan in place for when a teacher tests positive for Covid? Are the students going to have to quarantine as well? What kind of notifications are going to be put out?

We were supposed to have a meeting with my kid’s school today, but it got postponed til tomorrow. I really hope they have an option for full remote learning. We are well-off financially and I work afternoons while my wife only works 2-3 days a week. We both have multiple degrees are comfortable teaching our kids. But I also know that my kids go to a school that has a majority of kids who fall below the poverty line and have households that can’t home-school effectively or at all. With full remote learning, those kids will only fall further behind. If I have to send my kids back to school, we will probably comply since its a very good charter school and we don’t want to lose our place, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that we won’t have to.

Merfthemadmauler > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:39

1

I’d rather be on top of that roof.

DipodomysDeserti > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 07/27/2020 at 13:42

2

People keep ignoring very simple solutions for some reason.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:42

1

A friend and district are up and arms. “what is the plan when a student tests positive, or a students parent? test the whole school?
“ We’ll have to figure that out, it will probably be testing student and others in the class.”

A) what if they refuse, and b) average test results are taking a week, what in the mean time? Entire class sent home? and what about the teacher that has mutliple classes? Require testing those as well? Also testing is still limited how are you going to fasttrack a minimum of 20+ tests.

You have the administrstion in April “well its up the states”, then a number fo states “well its up to the towns”. Where are the contin gency plans? because everything being proposed is things magically getting better.

Sovande > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:42

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If you are nervous about going, don’t go. You have to, at some point, admit that you are in charge of making decisions that could be life or death. Your work does not get to tell you to place yourself in a life or death situation. The w orst they can do is fire you. Worst covid can do is kill you and your family.

CalzoneGolem > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:45

1

As parents we have no idea how our school year is going to go yet and neither do the teachers I’ve talked to. So we got that going for us.

I’m permanently working from home so I’m ready for whatever they decide but our situation is not tue norm.

My FiL was in charge of bussing for a big district and he retired the end of 2019 and none too soon.

Much respect for all our teachers you the real MVPs.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > DipodomysDeserti 07/27/2020 at 13:48

0

1. Make a plexiglass booth with a hole cut in it, place it in the doorway

2. Personnel stands inside, holds a digital no-contact thermometer in a gloved hand

3. Students queue outside and go one-by-one to the scanner

4. Students with “healthy” temperature go inside.

This much is easy. But there will still be students with high temperatures that walked or rode the bus in. Where do we make them wait until a ride comes for them?

That issue still isn’t a good excuse to spend less than $200 to implement this.

gettingoldercarguy > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:52

0

Dress like surgeons do, wear a respirator.

My mother is a special ed teacher, 73 years old. Refuses to quit,works at a private expensive school. She’ll die if she gets it, she’ll probably get it. I can’t convince her to not work.

Also, find a good attorney in case you do get it.

DipodomysDeserti > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 07/27/2020 at 13:57

0

One issue is with kids who run hot. My daughter is almost always at 99F. Her school has called me to come pick her up with this temp, as she realized it was an easy way to get a half day when need be . I’ve thought about getting a doctor’s note about it which is something I should probably do.

glemon > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 13:58

1

Had an interesting talk with my ex neighbor who teaches music/band. Kids p/parents are supposed to be responsible for keeping the “socks” they will use on the wind instruments clean, I referred back to junior high and smelly gym clothes. Also expected to do online learning in addition to classroom, can’t necessarily do online the same time/way as classroom, so essentially will have to teach every class twice.

Apparently somebody at a staff meeting said it would all fall apart by labor day (school starts mid August here) which is probably about right.  Half assed safety plan for kids who won't follow them anyway, zero assed plan for teachers.

Brickman > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:02

1

You took a picture of my truck :P

If I dont paint it in the next 2 years.

My nephew is starting kindergarten soon. In september I think. He only goes to school 2 days a week! At least that is what is going to happen. I laughed at the idea of online teaching a kindergarden class. No one is going to learn anything

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > DipodomysDeserti 07/27/2020 at 14:09

0

The university I work for is asking students to self-measure temperature every day. Deviation from a rolling average over ~14 days would be a pretty clear indication of illness IMO. This gets a little tenuous, adding layers of complexity, but here goes...

Most (all? I graduated high school five years ago and haven’t been to a public school in 9) public schools have some form of chipped/magnetically encoded student ID. In some schools with high truancy or crime rates, students are required to scan in (with a card swiper, chip reader, etc.). Why not have a database where student temperatures are recorded, be it manually (by the temperature taker or the student themselves) or automatically (a bluetooth enabled thermostat communicating with a computer and entering data via a VBA script or something)? Hey, combining cards with a different software front end wouldn’t even be that hard to do, since lots of school cafeterias use card swipes to deduct money from a lunch money account.

That said, implementing something like this goes deeply into the realm of “shit, if we have to do ALL THIS to try and have a remotely safe environment for [insert activity] to occur, why are we even trying to do [same activity]”?

shop-teacher > Sovande 07/27/2020 at 14:10

0

That’s so much easier said than done.  I’m going.

sony1492 > PartyPooper2012 07/27/2020 at 14:11

0

At a grocery store we sanitized all the carts and baskets after each use, it was unreasonable to use an individual towel for each cleaning

shop-teacher > gettingoldercarguy 07/27/2020 at 14:11

0

Wear a respirator?  My job is to communicate.  Try that in a respirator.

shop-teacher > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 07/27/2020 at 14:13

0

Agreed.

Darkbrador > Nibby 07/27/2020 at 14:13

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Good stuff. 

shop-teacher > AkursedX 07/27/2020 at 14:16

1

I honestly don’t know what or if the plan is is a teacher tests positive.

shop-teacher > Sovande 07/27/2020 at 14:18

1

“ People are far too ignorant to stop this thing.” I definitely agree with that.  It’s likely all the schools that do open, won’t be for long.

shop-teacher > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 07/27/2020 at 14:18

0

Yeah.  It’s a mess.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:19

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As someone local to FCPs as referenced in Nibby’s post.

FCPS is the largest school division in Virginia and one of the largest(if not the largest) non-metropolitan division in the country. They have 20+ high schools and roughly 190,000 students, I live one county further out and PWCS (Prince William County Public Schools) has about 90,000 students.

Most (All?) of the DC Metro area schools on the Virginia were waffling on some combination of hybrid or online only option, several floated surveys to parents looking to see what kind of feedback they would get.

In the last week or two every single one of them has had school board meetings that have lasted 6 hours or more (our local one started at 7 and ended up at like 2 am or something) and the result was a pivot to online only.

The school I teach at (and my kiddos go to ) is an independent school that is tiny <300 students K-12.

We have enough space that we are going full time for everyone but that comes with social distancing, masks, cleaning protocols , the works. Small population, large campus size and already small classes are some of the reasons that is remotely doable.

We are scheduled to start on time at the end of August, its going to be “interesting” for the lack of a better word.

shop-teacher > glemon 07/27/2020 at 14:20

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Yeah, pretty much spot on.

shop-teacher > CalzoneGolem 07/27/2020 at 14:21

1

Thank you.

My wife quit to stay home with the kids a few years ago, so the child care part isn’t a concern for us either.  But we’re also not the norm.

OPPOsaurus WRX > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:21

1

my town is trying to not lay off a bunch of teachers and at the same time a bunch of Karens are trying to get the town to dr op $100k to replace our mascot. In reality, it doesn’ t matter how you start the school. Within a couple weeks, a kid is gunna test positive and everyone will go back to full remote learning. This all really sucks because my son is supposed to start pre-school. How the fuck to you remote block stack?

Sovande > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:21

2

Understood, and I didn’t mean to sound so flippant. My sister is a teacher and she said she’ll go back. My son’s mom is guidance counselor and she said there is no way she will go back without some major changes. I just don’t see the us, as a nation, pulling out of this thing in the current climate. An unhinged sociopath pushing the narrative to try to help his reelection is not a good enough reason for children to potentially die or for their loved ones to get infected. It’s just not worth the risk, as I see it.

Best of luck on your decision. I know it’s an impossible one.

shop-teacher > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/27/2020 at 14:21

1

Thank you.  I will do my best.

AkursedX > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:22

1

Lol, of course not! I mean nothing against you, but its amazing how no administrators  seems to have answers for such a simple, obvious question. You would think that would be an important issue to think through and plan for early on if you are so hell bent on reopening everything.

Sovande > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:25

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I feel terrible for my son.  I am hoping that they proceed with the plan they have in place for the soccer league which is to have the kids do what will essentially be skills drills while inside painted circles 12'from other kids.  At the very least the kids will be outside and within shouting distance of their friends.  My son is scared and confused and bored and lonely and trying as hard as he can to try to maintain something akin to normal and it’s breaking my heart.  There is only so much you can say to try to assure him things will be okay.

shop-teacher > OPPOsaurus WRX 07/27/2020 at 14:25

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That’s the thing, I am super grateful to have my job. I have had no loss of income. Technically, that’s not true, as I usually pick up extra duty stuff after school (running scoreboards and such), but my actual salary that we depend on is untouched. I am super fortunate in that regard, but when the board president shoots back with more or less you should all shut up since you have a job, well ... that’s a less than great feeling.

My youngest daughter is starting kindergarten this year. Like you said, how do you remotely learn that?

I agree though, we’ll all be shut down in a couple weeks anyways.  

shop-teacher > Brickman 07/27/2020 at 14:26

0

My youngest is supposed to start kin dergarten in a few weeks as well ... no idea how you do anything meaningful remotely.

shop-teacher > Merfthemadmauler 07/27/2020 at 14:26

2

The roof kept me in college.  I loath the roof.

CTSenVy > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:27

0

“self-certify”

That’s just asking for trouble.

The school districts I support are getting ready to open in August, some are doing hybrid schedules, the smaller rural ones are going with a normal schedule. Both probably won’t make it till Christmas break without a shutdown from the sound of it, just need .5 percent of the kids to test positive to shutdown the system. For some of the small communities that’s only about 2 kids.

gettingoldercarguy > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:28

0

Pre record your lessons and play it on tv in the classroom

shop-teacher > Sovande 07/27/2020 at 14:31

1

Fair enough.  T hank you.

Hopefully this push will blow up in that asshole’s face and he’ll lose.

My decision is made, as I have no realistic options at this point in the game. I’m pot commit ted to this teaching thing, at least for now . I’ve got mouths to feed and bills to pay, or no realistic options to provide for my family.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:34

1

I’m sorry that you’re having to deal with this as a teacher - certainly not what you ever imagined signing up for with the job I would expect. Our close friend and neighbor across the street is a primary school teacher as well and is dealing with these same issues right now, I can’t imagine being in that position. They have 2 kids and elderly parents of their own that they’re concerned about too.

It’s infuriating when statistics about transmission amongst kids is brought up. Often times people point to other countries and how low transmission has been with schools reopening. Well OK, maybe. But that’s also dependent on context - meaning these are countries that very much got the spread of the virus under control and had significantly fewer cases overall. SO of course there is little spread. The US is in the exact opposite case in many regions - the virus is spreading more rampantly today than it ever did.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:37

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My youngest is starting junior kindergarten in about about a month, we on held off on  the enrollment until we had an idea of of it was going to be in person or not. Distance learning for that age group is a a challenge on a good day.

See my other response for how the school is managing in person.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:40

1

Taking temperatures is a waste of time and is basically “healthcare theater” in this case.

If they don’t require testing and masks, then I predict things will get worse after school starts.

Brickman > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:41

1

Exactly. He’s just going to watch do something else on the PC, play,  or make fart jokes to the other kids :P

Sovande > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 14:44

1

Again, I’m sorry I was flip about that.  It was reactive and I clearly wasn’t thinking. I hope they reconsider and can come up with something that will be a safer alternative to what they have planned.

Nibby > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 15:07

0

so does the ocean

BaconSandwich is tasty. > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 15:43

1

We’re in a similar boat, but it’s our oldest that is starting kindergarten. She’s going to be doing full days, two days a week plus every other Friday.

We have no idea how it’s going to go.

shop-teacher > Sovande 07/27/2020 at 16:26

0

Thank you.  I appreciate that.

shop-teacher > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/27/2020 at 16:27

1

Best of luck to us all!  

shop-teacher > AkursedX 07/27/2020 at 16:28

0

Oh, I didn’t take anything against me. There are so many things that logic would dict ate, that never happen .

shop-teacher > Sovande 07/27/2020 at 16:29

1

It’s a very weird time for them.  My oldest has been in karate for years.  About a month ago they restarted those classes, outside in the part, at cones in a six foot grid.  She was so happy to have an activity to do again.

shop-teacher > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 07/27/2020 at 16:31

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Yeah, the younger groups definitely have a harder time with distance learning.  That is why my district is pushing ahead with full day for the elementary level, but I don’t see how it can really be safe.

shop-teacher > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/27/2020 at 16:32

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They are requiring masks, but there is no testing.  And what happens when they take off the masks to eat lunch?

shop-teacher > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 07/27/2020 at 16:33

0

Good luck!

BigBlock440 > PartyPooper2012 07/27/2020 at 16:33

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If the towel’s supposed to be disinfecting the surfaces, why would the towel be a problem? They’re not wiping dirt or grease spots, they’re using disinfectant that’s supposed to kill the virus.  Stands to reason that if it gets on the towel, the disinfectant that is being applied by the towel will render any virus inoperable, no?

shop-teacher > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 07/27/2020 at 16:34

0

Thank you.

“ But that’s also dependent on context”

This is something that generally enrages me on all manner of subjects. People so rarely pay attention to the context.

shop-teacher > CTSenVy 07/27/2020 at 16:37

1

One of the board members said more or less the same thing about self-certifying. But still they’re going with it.

One of my neighbor’s brother is a superintendent for a district no too far away.  I got a lot of my information when all this was starting through him, and he was pretty spot-on about it all . He’s predicting we’ll all be shut down within two weeks.  I think he’s right.

shop-teacher > gettingoldercarguy 07/27/2020 at 16:38

1

Yeah, they’ll never figure it out :)

BigBlock440 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 07/27/2020 at 17:05

0

The US is in the exact opposite case in many regions

But in many more regions, it’s not spreading. That’s where the entirety of any of the discussions get lost. “Oh shit, there’s a spike in Denmark, better lock down Portugal!” “It’s not safe to open schools now, are you mad?! It doesn’t matter that your county hasn’t had a case in 3 months, t here’s a hot spot 1,500 miles away, we’re all going to die!”

The problem is people are trying to have a conversation about local issues and apply it to a national level thinking their local situation is the exact same everywhere. It’s a big country, physical space/distance is an important factor.

I find the whole “kids just haven’t been exposed” thing pretty funny too. No, they’re not as exposed as they normally are, but they still have parents that are going to the stores, work, going with their parents to beaches, parks, and gatherings, daycares, restaurants, etc.

As somebody who had 1 day work from home when the lockdowns started, then had to go back in , has a kid supposed to start in kindergarten in 3 weeks, has had 2 people entirely asymptomatic test positive in the plant a month apart (no workplace spread) , have known people who tested positive, some suspected but didn’t get tested (including both parents, inlaws, and children ), I just don’t see what the end goal is.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > BigBlock440 07/27/2020 at 17:24

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I certainly agree with you there - my in-laws live in a small rural community that has had 4 (FOUR) total positive cases since this whole thing began. I absolutely agree that precautions being taken in large cities absolutely should not apply to such places (or even others)- there needs to be a common sense solution to reopen things and actively monitor for cases popping up and have a plan for what to do if/when that happens . Needless to say my comment is specifically focused around the population centers - which there are PLENTY OF, mine included, where there are hundreds of cases and a handful of deaths on a daily basis, hospitals near capacity, and the same conversation around reopening schools. There is a shockingly horrible lack of nuance in how this situation is being handled across the country.

gettingoldercarguy > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 17:33

1

Yeah, my respirator suggestion was rubbish. I feel for y’all, I really do. We had no planning/preparation for what just about every single expert told us would happen.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 17:43

1

Zombification !

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 07/27/2020 at 21:19

1

This is a terrible situation, and I feel for you. We’ve been getting somewhat mixed and changing messages from our board for weeks, but it looks like they have finally settled on a plan. The first three weeks of the semester will be entirely virtual. Then there will either be “in-person” or at home (our boys are all in HS) . We thought that the in-person kids would be taught by a real teacher, but they are really are simply going to be divided up into rooms with a limited number of kids and they will sit there and do the same virtual work that the kids are doing from home. They will be in the same room all day, and will eat lunch in that room. There might be passing to band or other electives, but we’ll see. After the grading period, depending on how it’s going, you can change from at-home to in-person, and you can bail out of in-person at any tine. No idea what they will be doing about buses, but I’ll be taking our boys every day. We are fortunate that I am free to do that. I think it’s probably the best solution for everybody, and the district has had lots of time to prepare for the virtual model. In HS, there will be four periods/day, 90 minutes each. 60 minutes of teaching, 30 minutes of self-guided work. Those thirty minutes may also be used, if appropriate, to carry your at-home kid to school for band or something. That remains to be seen.

The symphony is trying very hard to have some sort of season this fall. We will be doing three virtual concerts, with smaller ensembles, plastic shields, and then the concert will be recorded and streamed. At the end of the day, they are doing all they can to make us as safe as we can be, and we just have to go do it. It’s our job. There have been plenty of people who have worked every day through this whole thing.

Again, I’m sorry you’re having to go through with this. There are no winners at all. Be safe and be well.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 07/27/2020 at 22:07

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Wow, that is a bizarre plan. I haven’t heard of another one like it.

Anyways, I agree there are no winners here. We’re all just going to do our best. You be safe and be well as well!

Thankfully your brother is going to make me some more masks with nose wires :)

PartyPooper2012 > BigBlock440 07/28/2020 at 06:32

0

...big assumption there with application of disinfectant. I think it was just a symbolic wipe. 

BigBlock440 > PartyPooper2012 07/28/2020 at 10:46

0

I guess, I just assumed why would they be wasting their time with a dry towel.

PartyPooper2012 > BigBlock440 07/28/2020 at 11:37

0

I saw nothing that resembled disinfectant. Just a towel from under the counter. Appease the masses so no one says it wasn’t wiped.

Maybe it was done behind the curtain... who knows anymore

Nothing > shop-teacher 07/28/2020 at 19:00

1

Following up, we just learned of our plan...100% remote through at least Sept 25. A final decision on the first semester plan will be made by September 25, and put in place Sept 28.

shop-teacher > Nothing 07/28/2020 at 19:14

0

Hopefully things will have changed for the better by then.